Power Levels are Nonsense
by Pikazilla
Summary: Enjoy my blasphemy as I deconstruct Power Levels and why debating about them is completely pointless
1. His Power Level is Over-Rated!

Disclaimer: I am going to mention the concept of Power Levels in general; both within DBZ and how it compares with other franchises. I am not saying that DBZ is bad, I am not saying Goku or the characters are bad. I am a fan of DBZ myself. All I'm saying is that the concept of Power Levels are flawed; again not to attack the franchise but to explore this specific concept. If you disagree with me, that's fine: but don't be a hater.

Speaking of salty triggered haters: I'm going to be mentioning Superman and the Death Battle. Keep in mind that I'm going to explain my reasoning below, and don't consider my verdict over the battle/debate as me declaring a character or franchise as being better. Basically if your blood is already boiling because I mentioned the word 'Superman', then don't read this blog. Everyone else, enjoy the blog.

Powerlevels: every forum regarding it is flooded with mile-long mathematical equations addressing the statistics and physics of characters and realities both real and fiction; even though this trait only exists in DBZ. Whenever I see someone debate how powerful any character is (including outside DBZ); they reference powerlevels.

So Superman is the most common example; what's Superman's powerlevel? Well considering he done multiple feats of infinite or beyond infinite power it might be just that. Bigger question is this: who cares? It's SUPERman. If Superman is weak, he's not Super now is he? He doesn't use ki anyways so how can you even compare or calculate; especially since powerlevels (in the DBZ definition of the term) DON'T EXIST IN DC. If they did; people would get quickly confused when relatively basic supervillains like Metallo defeat Superman. Some would be like 'oh Metallo must have a higher powerlevel of multi-universal tier' when the reality is that he's just Terminator spamming kryptonite.

One Piece even had a similar concept in Doriki: which was only mentioned once and never mentioned again. Not only is there almost nothing confirming what the numbers mean but Nami has a Doriki of about 9 (about the same as Spandam as they are both normal humans) and Kalifa is 630 yet Nami won her duel. Spandam even reasonably argued that he's still a threat due to his elephant-sword. Doriki also appears to ignore fighting styles (like Kaku being a swordsman or Fukuro specializing in flying) and devil fruits (especially Blueno and Kalifa); which can certainly affect how effective these combatants are rather than their physique alone.

But was actually pisses me off is that many people believe that these numbers might actually mean something; as in something you can precisely and scientifically analyze.

I recall that the DBZ wiki once mentioned that they think Turtle's powerlevel (0.001) was either miscalculated or he had a sudden boost in power; otherwise he wouldn't have stopped some humans who have a basic powerlevel (5). No one considered the reality: Turtle's pathetic powerlevel IS A JOKE.

The same way, as Death Battle pointed out, that Golden Frieza's powerlevel was a joke. You don't take jokes this seriously when the creator of the joke doesn't want you to.

And also this blog points out other obvious errors:  forums/88/t1413820-power-level-inconsistencies/

So should powerlevels be discarded entirely? Maybe.

The only reason powerlevels exist are specifically for the DBZ universe. And in that setting; it establishes a tier list. The reason to do that is because there is no other way to show when a character becomes stronger than another character until they prove so during their fight. It's to create hype; to create a ceiling the hero must overcome.

One Piece's Doriki also did this; to have Rob Lucci's stats about double to quintuple that of the other CP9 combatants. We knew that Lucci was the 'final boss' and it was clear that Luffy would be fighting him; but this was a good method to foreshadow how deadly he was without directly stating it.

Back to DBZ; they are dependent on these tierlists since the superhuman traits of the characters would be difficult to directly state. Making a tier list is the only way to do show when a new threat is actually a threat and when a character is experience growth; at least in regards to ki power. Dragonball had Kid Goku begin with basic training methods that eventually grew to becoming more superhuman as time went on. Kid Goku began delivering milk bottles to blowing up battleships. But once we get to the end of the series we see Jackie Chun destroy the moon. Now with characters destroying planets with ease, they had no way to depict a character's growth if the characters are already so absurd that even the largest tangible things have been destroyed by them or their equals. DBS tries to solve this with 'almost destroying the universe' or some crap like that, but that just continues pushing the writers into a corner.

Without stating it with an established tier-list, character growth would be impossible to depict other than;

Training Montage

New Transformation

Fusion

Stealing energy

Zenaki Boost

Going all out

Curbstomping a threatening character

And these traits exist in other works of fiction as well. And that's the case because again, it's to build up hype.

Another example of this is Yugioh; which always uses numbers. Number C1000: Numeronius and iC1000: Numeronius Numeronia from Yugioh. The average Yugioh monster that can be normal summoned and has no effects has about 0-2000 ATK; which includes giants, dragons, tanks. The protagonists normally have their signature monster with 2500 ATK. Blue Eyes, the most powerful Normal Monster, has 3000 ATK. A 'Star Eater' is 3200 ATK and Jizukiru, the Star Destroying Kaiju is 3300 ATK. A (lesser) god is at least 4000 ATK. The highest Base Attack otherwise is 5,000. Numeronius is twice that at 10,000. Then it's final form iC1000: Numeronius Numeronia is 10 times THAT at 100,000! Keep in mind that just a 1 attack difference is enough to win a battle (against another monster). So of course this is the 'final boss' of the series and his duel is the climax. It makes that final battle all the more risky; especially since Numeronia wins the duel if he's not attacked.

But as mentioned before; if a Star Eater is 3200 then how do we comprehend what 100,000 ATK means? How is 100,001 different from 100,000?

There's very little we can go by because there are plenty of inconsistencies.

Jerry Beans Man is literally a Jelly Bean, and his 1750 ATK is actually impressive. In comparison the Blackland Fire Dragon (the most standard stereotype of a European Dragon) is 1500 ATK.

Then you got Rocket Arrow Express: which appears to be just a rocket train. It has 5000 ATK! Again; on par with gods.

And I can give a Cloud (Token) a Unicorn Horn and a battle Axe (of Despair) [1700 ATK] and it can destroy a Giant Stone Soldier [1300 ATK]: that same Soldier once destroyed the moon: and is tall enough to hit that moon without even jumping. Likewise this same rock giant that is powerful enough to destroy the moon is only 300 ATK stronger than the card United Resistance: which is literally a peasant rebel army. Also GSS is too weak to kill the 2000 DEF card Oppressed People: which is literally a bunch of slaves building a basic medieval wall and tower.

A moon destroyer is only slightly stronger than an army of peasants and is too weak to destroy a stone wall.

Likewise; the card Huge Revolution is able to destroy almost any monster card of any ATK power. Keep in mind that, again, this card is just a peasant army with no obvious superhuman or supernatural powers otherwise.

These numbers make NO SENSE.

Then you got calculations that appear to make sense but have contradictions. One of the most infamous is the over-estimations of Goku's speed.

Kid Goku (at least 180 powerlevel at this time) dodged a laser from General Black. (ignoring the fact that Black grabs him immediately afterwards and Goku needs the Nimbus to travel long distances; lets give the wank the benifit of the doubt here and say that...) so the FACT that Goku dodged a laser means he's FASTER THAN LIGHT (flawless science there, certainly not blinded by wank).

So Blue Goku must be .5 Quintillion times faster than light :D :D :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

meanwhile Superman is faster than infinity :|

. /th?id=OIP.2hdAo99QLlW-Ulalifo98AEsCL&pid

But ignoring Superman for a second; this total is actually inaccurate. Nevermind the fact that Golden Frieza's powerlevel is a literal joke, there is a clear contradiction.

Goku after King Kai's training has 44.5x the powerlevel of Kid Goku at this time (powerlevel at least 8000). But Goku was confirmed to be flying at most 35,714 mph (assuming he went on Snake Way in a strait path, which he didn't, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt). This is 0.00005x the speed of light.

0.00005 is NOT 44.5x speed of light.

Also keep in mind that if we are trying to use some level of science then things like Special relativity and Inverse-square law should be considered: and almost no one accurately mentions it.

 **It is best to simply view the characters by what we see. To be this precise with the characters can actually make us inaccurate about them.** **Many 'Death Battle' style debates are actually impossible to confirm. I personally think that so long as a conclusion is strait forward, consistent and fair; ignoring outliers or one-time situations: then I don't see it as wrong. That's what debates ARE: two sides of an argument that both have merit, so long as it is reasonable.**


	2. Actual Strongest Character

Okay so I wanted to point this out; I do not care if Goku is stronger or weaker than Superman, I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the debate. But I'm not saying that Superman is the strongest character in all of fiction.

Disclaimer: I am assuming that the claims of infinite power within my argument are 100% legit. I am not debating whether or not these characters are 'higher dimensional' or 'multiverse tier' in power; I am considering that they are simply because it is relevant to their concept. I will not consider counterarguments based on assumptions; because I am aware that I am making some assumptions.

The two strongest characters in fiction; Dan Hibiki and Tsuyu Asui… nah just kidding.

It's; Horakthy, the Creator God of Light from Yugioh and The-One-Above-All from Marvel.

It's GOD.

Starting with Hora; this is her ingame ability: 'This card's Special Summon cannot be negated. The player that Special Summons this card WINS THE DUEL.'

There are Duel-Winning methods in Yugioh; but most of them require some kind of buildup or require multiple turns to perform. Horakthy however wins instantly. Nothing can counter her because a counter must be done after the fact; if the duel was already won then what's there to even do?

True that Exodia is basically the same thing; but only a fully powered Forbidden One (not 'fueled by the human soul of grandpa's grandpa') is a Duel Winner and even then Exodia was banished and dismembered by a spell; so I'm not declaring Exodia to be in this tier because some depictions of Exodia are not all-powerful (especially with the Grandpa's Grandpa idiotic loophole) and Exodia has some magical weaknesses.

Both gameplay-wise and in the anime/manga canon: Duel Winning Infinite Power.

Wicked Avatar is literally always stronger than any monster that fights it (as he is that 'evil more powerful clone' trope), and Yubel - The Ultimate Nightmare destroys any monster that fights her, with Yubel doing more damage against stronger monsters (as she 'redirects the pain' they inflict onto her); yet both will be destroyed by Hora.

And in the lore, Hora defeated the devil Zorc; who had infinite power: 'fueled by the unlimited power of darkness'. This is shown by him dominating the juggernauts of yugioh; the Egyptian Gods Cards (all at once) and Dragon Master Knight.

The-One-Above-All meanwhile; is just that.

Marvel has several dozens of 'gods', even Odin and Zeus, yet OAA is apparently their creator.

But what confirms his all mighty power is his interaction with Thanos; a (kind of) god possessing the Infinity Gauntlet which possesses an infinite amount of soul energy, power, time, ect… For those who don't know, this guy has on multiple occasions threatened the entire universe and all life in it singlehandedly, and has confirmed that he could kill all life in the universe if he wanted to. This of course got OAA's attention. Thanos however could do nothing; because OAA created the Infinity Stones and thus the very concept of power within Marvel. Infinite power was irrelevant to one that is beyond power.

Now what about The Presence from DC? Or the Mother of All Things from Spawn? Again; they should basically the same thing (GOD), I just don't know much about them so I can't make comments. Debating who is better than who is like asking 'is Jesus stronger than Jesus?' Maybe the better answer is:

'You should stop hitting yourself'

Also side note: My Snake Way calculation is actually giving Goku the benefit of the doubt, so my result was an overestimation compared to Death Battle's conclusion.


	3. Kami is not Kami

So since this is technically a DBZ blog I must address this counterargument regarding chapter 2;

'What about Kami or Zen Oh?'

Okay; Kami is NO GOD. He's clearly just some alien wizard; which arguably is what all the 'gods' in DBZ are (being magical and having eternal life alone is not what I'm referring to). Kami is at the very bottom of the barrel in the DBZ god hierarchy; completely making his name irrelevant decades ago.

Kami Kais SUPEREME Kais Gods of Destruction Angels Zen Oh

Yes Zen Oh is on the top of this tier; but how do we know there aren't any others beyond this? Any new 'god' characters in the future to stretch this out? Is it Super Golden Blue God Frieza Kaioken x100 fused with Legendary Ultra Broly?

Now does Zen Oh match the aforementioned One Above All definition of a god in Chapter 2? I'm not sure.

Yes we do see Zen Oh destroy a universe multiple times, perhaps multiple universes at the same time, and even kill Infinite Zamasu who is basically immortal and omnipresent within his universe. This Erase ability functions conceptually identically to Horakthy's attack Djeser; which also destroys immortals and characters of infinite power and basically makes anything else against it irrelevant.

But since Dragon Ball is a series about growth and escalation; I can't confirm if Zen Oh is a 'true god' until after the series ends.

Like the other 'gods', Zen Oh's power appears to be mostly magical. We have yet to see his physical abilities or ki attacks, so while there's nothing to confirm that he can be overpowered there's also nothing to deny it. Likewise; he appears to need butlers and what appear to be bodyguards, he needs technology (GodPad) and has some physical limitations; as shown when Zen Oh could not see Dyspo's speed.

Again; DBZ and DBS has some of the absurdly overpowered characters in fiction: but the theme of DBZ is to surpass your foe. By that concept; we have yet to see an 'all powerful' character. It's probably for the best, for it's the corner that these writers are writing themselves into. Once that ceiling is reached, there's no more hype to make: it has no choice but to be the end or to force a new ceiling to be created SOMEHOW. It would be like castrating a breeding bull; it's a self-destructive decision.

Yes this is basically what Death Battle said; but when you actually look at DBZ in this manner it actually makes consistent and perfect sense. Even immortals like Garlic Jr. have to be defeatable in some manner.


End file.
